00:00:00: Welcome to the New York State Podcast for my father.

00:00:04: Have fun!

00:00:08: If people really start thinking again and putting their knowledge into an agent like Angela does, then these agents become a partner of you meaning... You are part of a collective of humans that think in reason and discuss While you have agents that are part of view and your extension, And thinking.

00:00:30: they can run things very quickly through big data amounts to actually understand what's going on.

00:00:37: I think there is something we haven't really figured out That human-AI relationship yet?

00:00:43: The next form is the blur between us in machines In a meaningful way where we as thinkers in the machine are more doers.

00:00:52: It is very great that you have such powerful technology, it can actually help you stratify, restructure the ideal workflow.

00:01:01: I understand but for me what's most important as a strategist?

00:01:06: to keep the premium on judgement and a unique point of view and always safeguard the core skills of individuals whether creativity, whether foresighting or forecasting.

00:01:20: This is really what matters to

00:01:21: me.".

00:01:24: Thinking slow in the first age of machines In a time that gets faster and faster I liked thinking about learning to think slower again and maybe clearer.

00:01:39: The title Thinking Slow in the Fast Age Of Machines was one of

00:01:44: my talks

00:01:46: from Dominik Heinrich and Angela Tappé.

00:01:51: I had Dominik here two years ago as a guest in the podcast, he was currently head of AI design at Coca-Cola or it wasn't that long.

00:02:04: back then He told us how he came to America after coming from Germany and started there with Coca-Cola.

00:02:10: And now we're talking about where we are with artificial intelligence, which benefits and advantages that of course bring along.

00:02:21: But how important it is now to train our muscles in the memory of our brain as well.

00:02:29: consciously take us out again from this speed and slowly think about.

00:02:34: The interesting thing is that Angela and Dominic also work together.

00:02:37: They are at the Pratt Institute, Angela is otherwise Group Strategy Director by HAVAS a large agency group you may know.

00:02:48: Dominique is Global Head of Design Intelligence and Human AI Experiences

00:02:53: with

00:02:54: Coca-Cola as well as co-founder of Creative AI Academy So they both know where to talk about it.

00:03:03: New World Chat podcast folge, four hundred forty-one.

00:03:07: My name is Gabriel Rath.

00:03:09: I hope that here since two thousand eighteen was allowed to talk about it with many exciting people how they work what you have learned good working together and me interested in the question of how we can create a more friendly working world for people.

00:03:28: I

00:03:28: myself help founders, entrepreneurs, leading forces and companies to tell their stories not only on

00:03:36: podcasts

00:03:37: or stage but also strategically with the question where do i stand?

00:03:42: Where would you like me to go?

00:03:43: And what is my story about inspiring people so that they are able to identify themselves?

00:03:49: If you're interested, please subscribe to my Storytelling Newsletter on Substack.

00:03:53: You can find that in the show notes below.

00:03:55: Also I would be happy if you subscribed this podcast because i really give gas here and bring a lot of love into it week by week And i'd be happy when your supporting me with this podcast on Spotify Apple Podcast And wherever there is a podcast, you can subscribe to this podcast.

00:04:13: Thank you very much for that.

00:04:15: and now let's jump in!

00:04:17: We recorded it in English.

00:04:18: You know here is the German format but again I use the opportunity and also have guests with whom we speak English and please forgive me if it wasn't enough for my mother tongue, unfortunately I don´t talk too much But I would like to do so in the future.

00:04:43: Good morning from Germany and welcome to the podcast New Workjet.

00:04:47: I'm Gabriel, And i am very happy that Angela & Dom are here with me.

00:04:51: Moin From Germany!

00:05:07: to have you here in this podcast.

00:05:09: I did one podcast two years ago with Udom, and was a Berlin?

00:05:13: You were in New York at the time?

00:05:16: Yeah!

00:05:17: Were you in Mallorca?

00:05:18: That was before we did the podcaster

00:05:20: Yes!

00:05:21: And now two years later... Are you still in New

00:05:23: york?!

00:05:23: And i've got

00:05:27: company.

00:05:30: so yeah.

00:05:30: So it's very international podcast.

00:05:33: first question is how are you Angela

00:05:37: Well, doing good.

00:05:37: I mean happy Monday.

00:05:38: everybody who's listening or will be listening and feeling good Excited to do that podcast with you?

00:05:45: I think we've been trying to do this a few times so it's great when he happens.

00:05:49: Yes Happy months of July to all August actually for all the people vacaying in Dom's birthday month.

00:05:57: Obviously, Dom is a Virgo so we need to make sure that it's his birthday months this month.

00:06:01: everybody's on the twenty-fourth of August.

00:06:03: just in case you want to send something I'll put some more details and then he will find me although... I'm joking!

00:06:10: No feeling good thankyou.

00:06:12: I think Kenta Alashin knows very well.

00:06:15: And how are you Tom?

00:06:16: After this I'm great because most likely get a lot of thirsty Congratulations, which is always nice.

00:06:25: I'm very excited that we have the podcast and see each other again... And you know German saying was lange wird mit endlich gut?

00:06:34: I am happy when finally planning this since January!

00:06:38: Next recording should be in New York City.

00:06:41: then

00:06:42: We said it last time You are welcome

00:06:46: Angela.

00:06:47: i had three kids Three daughters Matilda, she's twelve years old.

00:06:55: She helps me with this podcast... With the introduction of guests.

00:07:00: and that is why first real question how would you explain what to do to Matilda?

00:07:11: Well, I mean...I actually think already Matilda is half-way there to be a CEO.

00:07:16: She's setting up the entire podcast and selecting the guest.

00:07:19: so i think Gabrielle just be scared.

00:07:21: it might be working for her.

00:07:22: I'm just the end command for this.

00:07:25: For

00:07:26: Matilda!

00:07:26: Yeah

00:07:28: she's like come on job you guys.

00:07:30: but if I had to explain to Matilda what I do?

00:07:33: And that something that I've always loved doing since young, was to understand why behind things.

00:07:42: So when I was little like my son would say one hour three years old but you know the question of a why?

00:07:50: But why?

00:07:50: so i'm a strategist and my job is actually make sense of things.

00:07:56: And then once I've done that made sense or things it's to explain in a manner that is compelling and exciting.

00:08:05: That will make her care.

00:08:08: Here's my explanation.

00:08:09: and just looks at me, and just walks off like a little french hug.

00:08:13: Then that means I failed out what i do And if she keeps listening it is interesting and actually sees all of the things we talked about can make a difference then... That's It!

00:08:24: So My Job Is To Simplify The Complex And Make People Care And Take Actions.

00:08:31: Somebody said make it simple but not simpler.

00:08:33: I don't remember who was.

00:08:36: I think Matilda would know about that, she'd be like... That's not a great idea.

00:08:40: We should really explain this!

00:08:43: Okay let's stay with you and maybe could you tell us little bit of your story.

00:08:48: where are from?

00:08:49: And how did you end up with Dom?

00:08:52: Oh wow!

00:08:55: You guys go right in there!

00:09:00: So I'm from France born and raised here I have been very lucky to have a mother who's very strong and driven, ambitious.

00:09:11: My mom is a nurse but she wanted the world and our exposure for her to continue to go further, what she couldn't do.

00:09:21: She pushed me to study and work really hard but most interestingly... ...she didn't encourage me to leave abroad.

00:09:28: Then from there I took an international journey where actually worked on the corporate side at first as a brand manager then moved to advertising pretty much always as strategist And i had the absolute luck of being able live in Europe, the UK.

00:09:45: Germany also lived and worked in Scandinavia.

00:09:48: And then moved to Asia where I spent some time in Japan Tokyo spend sometime in China Beijing not Shanghai Beijing.

00:09:55: so i've really was at the heart of what Chinese you know ancestral culture is all about?

00:10:02: Then got a wonderful opportunity actually move to New York.

00:10:06: So that's what I did.

00:10:07: And then, actually made down a couple of years back now almost the couple of year at Delia one out the creative international always and we were both judges in different sections on them.

00:10:20: We got chattyed one all evening i think One other closing evening and then we stayed in touch ever since.

00:10:26: Now are

00:10:27: you talking about AI alot?

00:10:31: As she already told us She still asks a lot of why.

00:10:36: So I got a lot of watts in that evening.

00:10:40: And it hasn't stopped till today.

00:10:43: Okay, so Dom we have this podcast and will link to the show notes but maybe long story short where you're from?

00:10:53: Why are now at New York City not Germany?

00:10:58: For the barbarians here... Look, I can't even continue in Mandarin and Algorandish.

00:11:10: Angela the other day is like we have a band an Algoradband that's called Los Amor And i tried to explain her what los amor means because it for the Germans this bedeutet im Endeffekt hör mal zu!

00:11:28: Listen please listen.

00:11:31: But it's really, is a very heavy dialect.

00:11:34: So I'm there and actually very proud that made out of the Alps into to the broader world.

00:11:40: And yeah my journey is believing in myself and really always wanted to go to New York.

00:11:47: To be honest was always my biggest dream In two thousand fifteen.

00:11:55: finally make it.

00:11:57: I met Rob Riley in Cannes, and we had a little bit of an argument about the quality.

00:12:07: One was maybe not the nicest conversations we had in all their years.

00:12:19: It was a conversation that brought me over to New York because he kept on talking and I think we both started appreciating each other's talent, so I started in New York and built up The Global Innovation Practice from Emery McKinnon which is now part of Omnicom... Which i don't really know what these guys are doing but it has been a different conversation And I always worked in the intersection of technology and design, which is basically for me innovation.

00:12:52: So over the years i ended up following my own company The Creative AI Academy.

00:12:59: we talked a lot last time about it together with Tony Jones who's My best friend, my partner in crime and it's just great that we keep on doing this.

00:13:10: We grow...we have Lego as client with On the Running as client which is famous in Europe.

00:13:15: there are a lot of agencies as clients who come to us really learn And As The Journey Goes I ended up at Coca-Cola as their global head of design intelligence.

00:13:26: Do both and do other adventures endeavors with Angela now Which Is Amazing aside of having a private life and suddenly became overnight father, which is my life in many ways.

00:13:40: I'm really happy!

00:13:42: You leveled up?

00:13:43: Definitely

00:13:44: We stayed in touch after our podcast And you sent me this video for your talk Which was called Thinking Slow In The Fast Age Of Machines.

00:13:56: Tell Me and explain to the audience why you developed these talks these thoughts about it.

00:14:04: Do you want to

00:14:05: start?

00:14:05: I can start.

00:14:06: So, i think that was from a conversation then Dom and I had one more or less in my roles because I do a lot of enterprise strategy and AI ops at the same time.

00:14:18: so the whole conversation was around agentifying to workflow building end-to-end workflows you know constantly dating teams wide sizing streamlining all the rest of it but also some of the questions we were having by their executive students.

00:14:34: interact with that Pratt, because we both teach over there for the Pratt Institute.

00:14:39: And I think where it all started was... It is very great you have such powerful technology which can actually help you stratify and restructure your ideal workflow.

00:14:53: but what's most important as a strategist to keep the premium on judgement to keep the premium on a unique point of view and always safeguard the core skills for individuals.

00:15:06: Whether creativity, whether foresighting or forecasting – this is really what matters to me.

00:15:13: Thinking about how we create new industry models that are sustainable because I think our responsibility now lies in us.

00:15:20: thinking about how evil it is as clearly currently the state of affairs will not work very long.

00:15:28: conversation that Dom and I had a lot was, how now that i know that can power companies which is wonderful because this really matters for value return on investment.

00:15:40: How can actually power up the individuals?

00:15:43: And how cannot make sure to give them the influence of the stretch they are looking at?

00:15:48: That's what ThinPrint came about!

00:15:50: Was...how could better understand where do you think and therefore the way I learn, and then bring in an AI partner that helps me stretch further.

00:16:02: And not stretch farther than what i already do but actually help me stretch into something which is a bit foreign to me.

00:16:09: so for example if you are a perfectionist in nature how can i lean on AI to become more action-oriented?

00:16:17: A lot more task oriented!

00:16:20: Make sure whatever perfection i pull out there get it done quickly and delivery to market.

00:16:26: So bring those two perspectives, And then that's how we start eating print?

00:16:31: Yeah, I think one of the things that we spoke a lot about is like this... That what i love about Angela is there's a statement out there when you have discussion on it Like the human in the loop and Angela rightfully said What does that mean?

00:16:47: Seriously!

00:16:47: What does this mean?

00:16:49: Then my explanation was like well I think Human In The Loop means exactly what Angela just described, but the thinking is important.

00:16:57: And so that's how we started really developing this.

00:16:59: and Angela was like oh I think we need to understand our muscles in our brain work right?

00:17:05: If you do weightlifting for your body You need to do the same for your brain.

00:17:10: now if it comes a little bit from...I think he read at that time What Demi Sasabi also said about metal learning better what is going on in the world.

00:17:24: The reasoning, because the machines can't do that.

00:17:26: they reason right?

00:17:28: But their reasons are not near field and it's very interesting all scientists trying to solve this problem will take years.

00:17:37: so I think when we started our intention was give people something that explains a few minute loop actually means be successful, but safely.

00:17:52: Yeah

00:17:53: and I mean there really is also we wanted to keep it simple and super tangible as well at the same time in the sense that these things can so conceptualize or so difficult to wrap your head around.

00:18:07: But again if you are a creative where do you need to stretch?

00:18:10: If you are... I mentioned perfectionist Where Do You Need To Stretch ?

00:18:14: If you're mostly task-oriented And very business minded Where do you need to stretch?

00:18:20: So, You are now in a position to build an agent team around you that allows you the best of what you want.

00:18:30: But mostly accomplish different tasks and it's super straightforward framework.

00:18:35: answer quite few questions about how you think or operate.

00:18:39: then I will guide you ask where is your outcome?

00:18:47: And then AI steps in understanding a little bit how to help.

00:18:50: So it's like giving you, like a super

00:18:52: team

00:18:53: and that you can walk around them going into workplace environment said this is the framework I built around myself.

00:19:00: This what i could do.

00:19:01: These are some of the weaknesses but these are our compensates for them and actually meaningfully use AI.

00:19:08: keep my judgement at the center.

00:19:11: Last time we spoke Dorm in twenty-twenty four.

00:19:14: It was big hype.

00:19:17: The age of AI is coming and be careful.

00:19:21: And now, in twenty-twenty six it's kind off normal.

00:19:29: It's a part of our reality.

00:19:31: but I also think that writing is thinking.

00:19:34: so Let's talk about Writing & Thinking its attempting to give it too an agent.

00:19:43: But i think Like you said, the brain is a muscle so important to really just sit down and do the work.

00:19:50: Yeah it's I like that question because I think Angela has great example for this Because i very often say there are like running strategies through codecs For example right from OpenAI which does amazing job for...I'm responsible at Coke for The newsletter of our design coalition call.

00:20:13: That's not a task you wanna have technically, but this is just real small team.

00:20:16: so everybody has to take things on and that's great tasks for automated with Codex right?

00:20:21: Codex downloads the script writes an essay runs a podcast in Google ML takes the link goes to MailChimp puts it in And I looked over it then approve it send out.

00:20:34: So perfect task because it follows very clear guideline.

00:20:39: There's nothing that machine can't calculate.

00:20:45: When it comes to strategies or anything has to do with a higher order thinking, that is where the machines struggle and this was when you need to actually do your job.

00:20:57: And I think there are some misconceptions out there different for various reasons.

00:21:04: We have people who have an opinion about AI.

00:21:06: It doesn't mean they're wrong they're setting something out that excites them.

00:21:11: But if I look at a lot of the work from an image perspective, it's good in a glance and not good in detail or consistency over time right?

00:21:22: We get to consistency but these things require high for details.

00:21:26: And last time i said A lot of professors at Pratt were Angela and Archiege Or Georgetown University MIT which we worked with The university in Lucerne in Europe.

00:21:39: They come to us and ask as what should we teach?

00:21:41: And the answer is always the same.

00:21:43: It's like go deeper on what you do Make sure people learn To learn learn basics, and learned understand and reason themselves.

00:21:53: But there's an opportunity as well where We just recently spoke about it that I think there is an opportunity for People to actually elevate their thinking and getting a competitive advantage for everybody who just thinks, hey I does my job.

00:22:11: If that's the case you will not go

00:22:13: anywhere.".

00:22:14: And so that is an opportunity to fine tune in and customize agents for yourself or for yourselves?

00:22:20: That what we do at The Moment with the ideation, the co-founder that you built.

00:22:25: Yeah!

00:22:25: For this podcast i have the privilege of visiting lot of offices and companies Very special room some weeks ago.

00:22:36: They were very proud of it, they showed me

00:22:38: this room.

00:22:40: there was no computer

00:22:41: in it

00:22:42: just a round table with some chairs and Some windows and some plants.

00:22:48: And they said This is just for talking discussing creating ideas writing down on paper and then going to the next room working With AI.

00:22:59: and so I loved the idea because Like one or two years ago, everybody was talking about and AI everywhere.

00:23:05: And they said we have these rooms like literally where we just want to be human back in the days for some time.

00:23:17: Yeah I mean i love that.

00:23:19: it's going back to the first step of ways... ...and the first thing is to think very deeply.

00:23:25: There are so much products solutions ideas thoughts.

00:23:32: Again, it's back on the individual.

00:23:34: The individuals...the teams to actually form a very solid judgment.

00:23:39: again if Matilda asked me why do you still do that job and what do you love today?

00:23:44: And What do you bring into large groups?

00:23:47: Yeah!

00:23:48: To the larger group that you work for.

00:23:50: I think It always creates something different or does not exist which is hell of task always to find a tiny bit of blue sky in the cloudy sky or like little sweet spots, white space and very saturated spaces.

00:24:09: That is so difficult!

00:24:10: And I love that.

00:24:11: those guys almost isolated from this phase of thinking which means before we run into solutioning... We have and our best is trying to time it.

00:24:22: We will give ourselves twelve hours maximum for me longer.

00:24:26: if you need to do deeply deeply think and ask yourself why are we creating this?

00:24:32: why would it matter?

00:24:33: where is the revenue?

00:24:34: asking questions

00:24:35: yes and like challenge each other.

00:24:38: And actually that's, he's almost coming back now.

00:24:41: i need always difficult cause.

00:24:42: those conversations are heavy But you need to go back to the spirit that we are all here to build a one product, and we're only at our solution for better outcome.

00:24:51: And then from there... You run into okay.

00:24:54: so now how do we prototype what it is I have to do?

00:24:58: The first thing is thinking in white space like why should even bother with this thing?

00:25:04: Discussing things.. It's not really possible to discuss within an agent or maybe were'nt they yet!

00:25:12: I mean sometimes you talk to yourself, that's the thing.

00:25:15: It is like they are very helpful but then we always say... Did

00:25:19: your agent say the other?

00:25:20: Sorry to interrupt you!

00:25:21: But didn't your agent said it was a great thinking engine

00:25:24: now?!

00:25:24: And where were you going with this?

00:25:26: Wasn't that the case or something?

00:25:28: That he was interested because i built my agent.

00:25:31: so be able challenge me.

00:25:33: and still my agent knows what works for him and they're ever-so-subtle if not careful you lean into them as well.

00:25:42: I just want to say she has said the agent works for her.

00:25:46: So that's an interesting one of our employees, so it is fascinating.

00:25:51: but...

00:25:51: And i care for it greatly and am really polite

00:25:55: because

00:25:56: when they might have to work on it in the meantime this how we go about it?

00:26:03: Because you still need to have a premium judgment.

00:26:06: Angela sometimes at home says But all jokes aside, I think what's interesting...I love this.

00:26:15: What they do and it goes very much with the methodology we have at Crater's AI Academy where consulting really go in to say pen-to-paper when people look at us confused.

00:26:27: there is something really interesting.

00:26:29: There are some studies around how important it is physically right And I think the other part, which is also super interesting as a topic.

00:26:41: we just recently spoke about this.

00:26:43: If people really start thinking again and putting their knowledge into an agent like Angela does then these agents become a partner of you meaning What part of a collective of humans that think and reason in this case.

00:27:00: while you have agents that are part of view and your extension into thinking they can run things very quickly through big data for at the data amounts to actually understand.

00:27:13: what's going on, gives you the knuckled heart of it and then take from there or run through synthetic personas.

00:27:21: What we're just discussing is actually working for that audience so I think they are something... We haven't really figured out human-AI relationship yet but now be going into an isolated room where its just humans?

00:27:36: The next form is blur between us in machines in a meaningful way and the machines are both doers.

00:27:44: And that's fascinating because, The next job resume.

00:27:48: I will probably have a bunch of agents on my job resume to join me if you hire me in their company.

00:27:55: What Do You Think?

00:27:56: How Will Your Work Change In The Future Because Of AI?

00:28:02: It Doesn't!

00:28:03: I think by the work I'm doing what i am good at, what Angela is good at but we all go there.

00:28:10: it just becoming more important how I need to, I will offload things that are like i said about.

00:28:17: the newsletter is a great example for this.

00:28:19: but and I offloaded a lot of the things.

00:28:21: I do a creative AI because as still have both jobs um They're just repetitive tasks.

00:28:29: But The thing that makes the part that makes me good in my job As a designer has it design technologist Is It's just becoming what working then?

00:28:45: I mean, yes.

00:28:47: I see a little bit differently actually because...

00:28:50: She's very polite.

00:28:51: Let us discuss.

00:28:53: Very polite for French.

00:28:55: Bring it on!

00:28:56: Don't agree with them.

00:28:58: I put the camera up at dinner table.

00:29:01: The one thing that we are aware of is if there rules do not evolve There is a natural argument that you can streamline it, as technology becomes more advanced.

00:29:16: Because at some point the agent will pick up on your skill set especially if he built to image.

00:29:23: then I would say well now have an image of done.

00:29:26: so i'm done and don't need any more.

00:29:28: So you need

00:29:29: develop.

00:29:29: basically what do

00:29:30: you said?

00:29:31: Yes, and I actually think the individuals again.

00:29:34: it goes back in that there is this conversation out there about the premium on judgment which absolutely agree.

00:29:39: And then these new value...and i think we need to define what their new values?

00:29:43: because right now things are monetized ...that's a deeper conversation.

00:29:49: but our love for the folks who listen to that let us get into touch Because I really want to debate that.

00:29:56: But To me like the rules have to evolve otherwise You are just doing off more of what you've done with an agent that actually can make you do it faster.

00:30:06: So the only race your we winning is not time.

00:30:09: and then what is the value?

00:30:10: What's meaningfulness.

00:30:12: And then actually, it's great that there are economies of scale but okay fine and everything will be cheap people going to have jobs.

00:30:20: so I really feel like this conversation around new values needs to really be explored and unpacked.

00:30:27: So we get into a space where roles actually evolve.

00:30:30: So for me strategy... The craft always remains.

00:30:37: However, it is changing drastically when we went from the digital revolution to now an AI revolution.

00:30:44: To not an agentic revolution.

00:30:46: so what will that be?

00:30:47: But how can strategy blend into other maybe all the crafts?

00:30:52: or simply why does they new value of strategic and action in boring Not just through the enterprise but mainly two communities?

00:30:59: I don't know.

00:30:59: And that's a thing conversation that would need to think through.

00:31:05: industries or maybe startups right now are starting to lean into more subculture moments, or more cultural phenomenon.

00:31:14: Or more contextualized phenomena that makes the world slightly refined but... That is happening I think i see a lot of different examples But we haven't been pointing to one thing and maybe we shouldn't.

00:31:26: yeah Maybe it needs to be more plural than singular.

00:31:30: Maybe the age of you know cooking is over.

00:31:35: Maybe actually everything needs to be contextualized, maybe things need to be absolutely personalized.

00:31:42: We always talk about it but genuinely personalize to a person's day or week of experience.

00:31:49: I don't

00:31:49: know.

00:31:49: What i think is interesting that the more we talked artificial intelligence The question raises what human intelligence?

00:31:59: I remember last time Adam said there was no AI Really?

00:32:04: And now we're reading about agents breaking out, but I know it's not what the media tries to tell us.

00:32:11: So let's talk about human intelligence and artificial intelligence.

00:32:16: It is not what Sam Altman wants or she wants us to believe certain things right because... I always tell that students as well think about who he saying this Value or what their actual goal is by saying that?

00:32:34: What's the benefit of saying there?

00:32:36: because I technically do not want to have other people know that my agent just broke in Basically hacked another startup.

00:32:43: I don't wanna look.

00:32:44: tell that anybody, I wanted make sure this Is fixed and not happening again.

00:32:48: so telling it everybody means i'm gonna Tell everybody back.

00:32:52: Have good my model is.

00:32:53: we created

00:32:54: a monster

00:32:55: Because I had a lot of competition.

00:32:56: why would you dad?

00:32:57: because I want to raise money.

00:32:59: so It's the same thing is like why put people in LinkedIn certain messages up.

00:33:05: That's that's the question.

00:33:08: So what do you think?

00:33:09: What are there

00:33:10: the core things that only we human can really do and will Do in the future?

00:33:19: How well if I would have all these answers then, I wouldn't be probably super huge Contrary to Angela, who is way more open to the world than me.

00:33:33: But I think that interesting part about what we really hone down on our own individual skills and knowledge in our craft at Angela's point involving their craft because if you think of it as an agent trained by my abilities right?

00:33:56: then the question is to Angela's point, as she rightfully said.

00:34:00: It's like when this agent taking over because it has all of that knowledge?

00:34:03: So the job I have to do is constantly advancing in what I'm doing and how I am thinking about things—how design, how strategize… How great!

00:34:16: How I'll do my work... And cultural understanding not blindly accepting everything being coming out from a machine by the way but thinking.

00:34:27: It is just understanding how certain elements are fitting together, it can contextualize really well and it can reason based on data.

00:34:36: so now we have a discussion where the data coming from?

00:34:39: And this that data or development data.

00:34:43: nothing has changed in the sense of somebody puts out an information human or AI.

00:34:49: I need to think through if is true or if I agree with it, then the great philosophers did that.

00:34:56: The great scientists do not question each other and peer reviews.

00:35:01: so nothing has changed.

00:35:04: in a sense we talk about this but at the same time actually what human thinking means as human intelligence mean only changes.

00:35:19: to be more intelligent I need to go to school and can't let everything do AI.

00:35:25: That's the kind of little advantage we try, um... ...to tell ourselves every

00:35:30: day.".

00:35:30: Yeah!

00:35:32: I mean said the Bahá'í always tried to say the Bahā'i push further but i think for older... We

00:35:38: all need a bit more edge over it.

00:35:42: But like said there is a lot of light You know, unnecessary out there.

00:35:47: so we will be great to actually try to change that and go further.

00:35:52: And then for the folks on their journey of learning diversify greatly because now in a way you have support that can accumulate information knowledge with you.

00:36:06: So let me understand a little bit more about architecture.

00:36:10: Let me understand about entertainment.

00:36:12: How does industry actually function?

00:36:14: Oh, wow!

00:36:15: Interesting new genre of music.

00:36:17: Who are these artists?

00:36:18: What inspired

00:36:19: them?".

00:36:19: So you always have more avenue than the ability to accumulate tons of information.

00:36:27: but the thing is that we can explore so much and be exposed to stories which has great advantages.

00:36:36: Yeah, big curious.

00:36:39: Unfortunately we still make mistakes now.

00:36:42: those mistakes might be even less costly because you can actually pilot them which is amazing right?

00:36:48: I just

00:36:48: realized listening to how doomed companies are Because in our honesty Right companies go and they try to maximize efficiency of it Which is absolutely understandable.

00:37:05: We do the same.

00:37:06: They're all behind this, especially if you have your own company.

00:37:10: But then at the same time what you just said that requires a lot of visionary thinking.

00:37:15: to say I save here forty percent off the time actually half of the resources.

00:37:25: i can't let go because they had only depth in knowledge and thinking and pushing the boundaries with them.

00:37:31: maybe i have people who are like okay they do kind.

00:37:35: It's like they're well as invested, there should be.

00:37:39: And listening sometimes to other people's meetings where you question what's going on if it won't?

00:37:46: But I think that will fundamentally change.

00:37:49: and the interesting part is... What i'm excited about this also companies need to change their operating model.

00:37:57: They'll need to They be successful.

00:38:02: That can't be probably successful with a different skill set of people, but they need the skillset.

00:38:08: and I think that's the question what skillsets do actually to be successful?

00:38:11: But i love where you're going because you saying really The part there is so fundamentally important which is just the depth of their talent that are off in how they go allowing them to do that.

00:38:26: And organizations will need to rethink all of this Especially if people show up with agents in the pocket and saying, I'm good at what they're doing.

00:38:35: But only do it that successful?

00:38:38: If I bring my agent is like how to interpret them on a company right.

00:38:41: And then also have that big question okay now where did we go next?

00:38:45: And try to face it out.

00:38:46: but you always had very long term.

00:38:50: You will add visions that feel grandiose but maybe a night unable but probably gonna have a couple of set-up great objectives.

00:38:58: Where do we go next?

00:38:59: What's the phasing of this and now from a great team or staff that I have, what can expand diversified or even merge together to bring different skillsets.

00:39:13: Different perspectives right Being open-minded in the sense as well, and I don't know how that works.

00:39:21: And very large enterprises because there's you know We need someone else with us safety security governance but we Have that conversation around.

00:39:30: hey folks out There what have you tried?

00:39:33: What works?

00:39:34: Why do actually think that we can pilot maybe a call of individuals a team Of two three and be curious an action?

00:39:42: leave me understanding That people are catching up.

00:39:45: so let all up the ability of the team to actually bring idea, bring perspective and contribute to that vision.

00:39:52: And then again set sail and try be successful at it and pivot as you go along.

00:39:57: so its not fundamentally change or there is definitely an evolution thats for

00:40:05: sure.

00:40:06: Last question what do think should we teach our kids?

00:40:13: I

00:40:14: mean one thing One, two, three.

00:40:18: again my son.

00:40:20: You know guy he's still little but honestly don't be scared.

00:40:25: try not to be scared because it is terrifying and I can understand for all the graduate out there you are freaking out!

00:40:34: You basically worked all these years that learned and put your best prayer forward to realize at all entry levels have been replaced by a machine.

00:40:42: That's gonna do a botched job anyway.

00:40:44: And then for the manager in the mid-levels or higher levels, they're number one panic.

00:40:49: It's like now I have no entry level and I don't have middle level at all... The crap is rising up!

00:40:54: Basically you need to deal with it.

00:40:56: So i would say to him Don't be scared.

00:40:59: Also yes if you are obsessed with a subject lean into it because that clearly your passion but keep your eyes open Because You will have to flex in a way that we never had the chance to do anyway, right?

00:41:14: Like back then you were trained as creative.

00:41:17: You grew as a creating unit would train at the start and people redefining and recreating themselves repositioning themself was actually quite hard To do.

00:41:26: that I would say couple of years ago.

00:41:28: Right now it's almost the name off the game.

00:41:31: like you can be A few things And you can bring your perspective.

00:41:36: so there

00:41:36: are lots jobs on your career.

00:41:38: Yeah

00:41:41: There's not anything I can add.

00:41:44: It just shows how much an amazing job Angela does with raising Iran, but if you want to learn more about Gabriel or the listeners wanna learn more, Angela and I will speak at London International Awards day creatively as well This October, so we will talk a little bit about this topic of what you need to learn and What think print is?

00:42:09: And how do actually hold in on building your own natures.

00:42:14: I would add for the individuality which sets you apart from others.

00:42:24: With six year old harder-to-teach and try he's more like dumb.

00:42:31: I'm going to play with the car.

00:42:33: What did he eat this morning?

00:42:34: He was a blue dragon?

00:42:36: Yeah, maybe with yellow straps or something.

00:42:38: With yellow straps!

00:42:40: Maybe that's his future... But

00:42:42: is it imagination?

00:42:45: Yes,

00:42:45: it's imagination.

00:42:46: He wants to work at Coca-Cola and constantly wants to talk to my boss which

00:42:51: is not Pepsi.

00:42:54: No!

00:42:59: Thank you very much, Angela and Tom.

00:43:02: I hope to see you in real life someday!

00:43:06: What's your plans?

00:43:07: You come into New York

00:43:08: or we go to Benin?

00:43:11: Sure will.

00:43:12: the question is when?

00:43:16: maybe there something interesting around one when they're also at Something happening like that design week That week or we have towards the end of this year.

00:43:28: Combine it, I summits right?

00:43:30: Yes!

00:43:31: Yeah that would be fun.

00:43:31: and then we do a live sitting all together.

00:43:34: It's gonna be a discussion...I just feel like its harder for you to get into the conversation than two of us talking.

00:43:42: It will be easier if

00:43:44: i was in New York City with you For sure but it is great talking to you.

00:43:49: All the best from you.

00:43:50: Thank You And next time

00:43:52: We

00:43:53: hope to see you soon.

00:43:54: the discussion

00:43:55: what we would love to.

00:43:57: thank you very much everyone.

00:43:58: thank you bye bye.

00:43:59: And with

00:44:01: that,

00:44:02: we're already

00:44:07: at the end of today's podcast episode.

00:44:12: If you liked it then subscribe to New Work Chat Podcast and follow me on LinkedIn, Instagram.

00:44:18: Connected with Me and visit my page GabrielRad.com.

00:44:22: There is more about myself there as well.

00:44:24: I am also a keynote speaker around the topic of future work and storytelling and there are also programs for leading forces around leadership communication how we set ourselves up for the future.

00:44:40: Thank you very much for listening!

00:44:42: We'll be back on Friday with episode four hundred and forty-two.

00:44:45: You can ask me all kinds of questions in an email, so feel free to write them down.

00:44:52: Also subscribe to our newsletter, like Substack.

00:44:55: You will find everything in the show notes as well as of course the links to Dominic & Angela.

00:45:02: Liebe Grüße aus Rostock City, aus dem Hohen Norden.

00:45:05: Bleibt gesund und bleibt connected!